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John Wilson is joined by Aizik Zimmerman to discuss strategies for home service businesses, particularly focusing on membership programs, marketing, and reviews. They emphasize the importance of providing value to customers and owning the customer relationship. The conversation touches on various marketing approaches, including digital marketing, reviews, and guerrilla marketing.
Episode Hosts: 🎤
John Wilson: @WilsonCompanies on Twitter
Jack Carr: @TheHVACJack on Twitter
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More Ways To Connect
The Owned and Operated Weekly Insights Newsletter
John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies
https://www.wilsonplumbingandheating.com
Jack Carr, CEO of Rapid HVAC
https://rapidhvactn.com
Owned and Operated Episode #64 Transcript
John Wilson: I think we could spend a little bit of time on digital but I really think the bulk of the time would be going towards like,
Aizik Zimmerman: You know, what is an interesting topic too on this that I do have a lot of energy for is how to think about like marketing segmentation geographically. I can't speak for every market, but in Chicago, everyone, is so big. There's so many different neighborhoods and zip codes. Yeah, we think a lot about like, we call them our squares and blocks. So what zip code, which is, basically like a two by two mile square, do we want to plan? And so we look at population, density, age of home, and there are squares that are worth five times the other ones.
And so we think about from a holistic standpoint, how can we dominate digital in that square and how can we supplement that with traditional marketing so that we're seen everywhere in that micro community and that's the stuff that I have like crazy energy for. So like, how do we. Be at the top of the rankings for that neighborhood on Google, then do partnerships with local restaurants so that they see us online, they see us on takeout bags with their favorite restaurant and they get a direct mail piece from us.
This is all usable. I believe I want to be a student of the game, a student of the home service game on the plumbing game.
And I want my career here to go is I want to spend all of my time learning from other companies in home services outside and bringing the best to us. So like a puzzle, grab a jigsaw piece from him and her and whoever, what are they the best at? And I know you're very similar to that.
Like I get texts from you all the time. You're always talking to people. You're always pulling inspiration and trying to bring it back to your company. And so my whole thinking on everything brand marketing related has been influenced a lot by honestly, like I went to the service Titan conference, , Pantheon was like a month ago, two months ago, and that experience alone, like really changed my life.
Like I met a lot of these operators who had built these organic businesses to be very large. Over, five or 10 years and the way they think about brand and marketing was very influential on me. And you look at, the Tommy Mello and A1 garage door, you look at 10 good, rich and ghetto, and you look at the way they think about building a brand.
And having that drive everything and how they talk to consumers, how they show up. Yeah. So for us, we're about to undergo like a full expensive rebranding of our company to try and have a look and feel that is elevated in the way we want to be. And then we're going to match that with marketing muscle.
And so I think one of the largest, most important departments of our company in the coming years is going to be Growth marketing how do we go neighborhood by neighborhood identify the best neighbors want to be in because it's not just population. It's not just income. , my marketing manager and I like to say it's the genetic makeup of that neighborhood.
And there's different factors that go into that,, that make individual areas more valuable than others. Like, I have two by two mile squares that drive five times the business for me as entire massive swaths of land because of the makeup of that square. And so if we identify those both in Chicago, other cities and expand into them that's where we feel like we can win.
And so if we can holistically approach those squares, where we know that there's outsized business opportunity that's what fires me up. then doubling down on our best neighborhoods, like we look at some of these neighborhoods, we already drive. 20 percent of our business, and I look at the amount of homes we go to every year in just that one square.
I'm like, we've maybe 15 percent penetration only. If I look at the amount of homes that are single family owned, and I guess how many plumbing problems they have a year. I'm like we still have five times the room in this one, two by two miles square. So why wouldn't I send everyone in that square mail every week for a month? Why wouldn't I partner, which we now have done this. We've gone to local restaurants and we've paid them basically a rental fee for the month, giving them a ton of stickers, coupons, and now they're pasting them on their takeout orders. We give them a unique referral code and phone number.
So that we can then pay them per lead for any leads they drive to.
John Wilson: How many leads has pizza driven?
Aizik Zimmerman: I don't want to say too much. I don't want to reveal a ton. I will say that this has gone live only two weeks ago.
John Wilson: I mainly just want to know if it has driven leads.
Aizik Zimmerman: It has driven leads. It's not, you know, Google's God. It's nowhere near Google, but it has driven leads. And, I think there's also a massive brand building component to this too. Like I've talked to people who have worked at, let's say a ghetto, for example, and like a big thing that these companies do when they enter market is they think about it as like. I don't want to use their words. It's like a weird directory word, but they basically try to flood the market. And they do it through radio. They do it through billboards. They do it through direct mail. And it's to build that brand awareness that has a long tail to it. And so when I look at these neighborhoods, how can I be seen by the same person like 5 or 6 times?
So when they do have a plumbing problem, they think of me. So if I can holistically like achieve the following in a square. I know that it's going to drive leads eventually, if I can be number one in Google in that neighborhood, if I can have sent them multiple direct mail pieces, if I can have a sticker on their favorite takeout restaurant.
And if I have a door knocker, maybe even walking around in a toilet costume, knocking on the doors, my bands are in the area. You see me constantly. You're going to likely call me when you have a problem.
John Wilson: So the way you're thinking about this, your audience segmentation is geographic.
Aizik Zimmerman: Yes.
John Wilson: Okay.
Aizik Zimmerman: The geographic is based on factors of the consumer. What's the population, what's the income, what's the age of home, what's the mix of owner occupied. Like we want to be on old owner occupied homes with decent incomes, that's the magic formula in plumbing. You want to be in a hundred year old three flat owner occupied buildings because they care about where they live, they need the work done, and they have the money to pay for it, and that's where you get, like, these homes, like, I believe, there's literally millions of them in Chicago, they're worth, you could debate it, but I think it's, 100, 000 plus over the course of a 30 year time frame.
With the amount of work that has to be done across their plumbing and drain systems. And that's just, vastly superior than being in a neighborhood full of new construction homes.
John Wilson: Yeah, I agree when we're thinking about audience segmentation right now, we're very new to this, and you know this, but I'm saying this for the audience. We're very new to audience segmentation. We have not done a good job of this historically. So mainly we didn't have the muscle. We didn't have the team. Our marketing team went from one VA to, we have 11 people right now. And it's about to jump up to 13, like full time, this is their job. They're in our marketing team, different aspects, like some creative, some very like fulfillment, like focus, like LSA grading, like that's a part of our marketing team call grading. That's a part of the marketing team. We're really honing in on audience segmentation inside our existing lists because over the years, this is one of the advantages of buying companies is our customer list is insane for the size of a company we are. We have literally a hundred thousand customers.
Aizik Zimmerman: like 15, 000 maybe.
John Wilson: Yeah, we have 100, 000. So the way we're thinking about so much of our marketing now is like, yeah, we've got Google, you know, it's doing its thing over here. But over here, I have 100, 000 people who have spent money with me already. I've got their contact. I've got their email. I have their cell phone. I have everything I need. So what we're doing is we're designing this gold mine. Yeah. And like a hundred thousand people is insane.
Aizik Zimmerman: How do you think about that? Between emails like cold calls?
John Wilson: Yeah. So I'm still like shaping my thoughts on branding and I have a few ideas for how I think about it because like we've obviously we run radio now. We've done billboards. We've done TV but what the biggest thing I'm thinking about with how we reach out to these people is how do we talk to them as often as possible that's reasonable? And how do we get in front of them? Because if I'm no longer thinking about the four and a half million people that live in my Metro like Google is going to take care of that. I'm thinking about the a hundred thousand people that have already spent money with me.
So how do I build an internal sales team to reach out to those people proactively? What's that look like? And a hundred, thousand customers, that's a 15 person call center and that's what we're building. I started it two or three weeks ago and we're going to hire our fourth one tomorrow.
Aizik Zimmerman: I think this is a brilliant point. And I think we're as my company, we are. I've got one and a half people outbounding now, and I think we need to get to like 10 ASAP too pushing this.
John Wilson: Well, I think, so Rich gave me a lot of thoughts on this and he said, you should reach your whole customer list once a quarter.
And if your average outbounder calls a hundred people a day, that's 6, 000 people a quarter. And I have a hundred thousand contacts and it's growing every day. Cause every time we get a new customer, every time someone puts their data into anything that we own. That list grows. So now we're really putting a lot of energy into list ownership and like data accumulation in a way that we've never thought about, like we've never really had to care about emails, but like what you can do with that, aside from just cold calling them is like, Hey, that mass market marketing, you don't have to put that on TV or billboard anymore.
You can just retarget those hundred thousand people and you can follow them on meta. You can follow them on youtube, like you literally don't need to mass market anymore. These are warm leads These are people that have already spent money with you And you've got enough information to target them and you have enough information to find lookalike customers So you can go get a data study with your customer list and say hey I want these four segments of customers.
I want the people who have bought a sewer. I want the people who have bought a tankless. I want the people who have bought a membership for me, and I want you to identify what's the customer profile so that I can go into meta and I can drop these thousand data points, and then I can find more people that look like my 20, 000 people that are my ideal customer.
Aizik Zimmerman: Even those 100, 000 people, how are you, retargeting them across multiple channels? So let's say you have somebody who spent money with you. You have their phone number, name, email. Are you targeting them with Facebook ads or something like that too?
John Wilson: The answer is yes. And I'm going to avoid going too crazy on this. We're still working on this, but like 100, 000 people is enough to create some really interesting segments inside our own customer database where we're still like pulling on those threads. So like I want to target people who have done a drain cleaning in the last year, and I want to send them a specific message and thinking about how you put that message in front of them is like a lot of where.
Aizik Zimmerman: I think if you're a home service company, if you're a really successful, this should be one of your biggest departments. Marketing and all aspects should be like, so focused. Like you should have your field team full of people doing this stuff and having this conversation.
John Wilson: A hundred percent. Yeah a 15, 000 is not 100, but like 15, 000 is a lot of freaking people. Like that's insane. That's more than enough. I think we all just get caught up in this, like, Oh, let's go to Google. Let's do this.
Aizik Zimmerman: It's the laziest thing that everyone does.
John Wilson: It's lazy but it's also like, what is cost For customer acquisition and can we reduce it? And I know that everybody tells you like, yeah, go spend 10%, go spend 12, go whatever you're in scale mode a hundred percent, but you know, it would be a better use of that million dollars of overage. Is 200, 000 going into this? Cause you're retargeting people that have already spent money with you.
Aizik Zimmerman: How do you think about memberships? So The biggest thing that I think a lot about that we're like going to be pushing in hardcore now, we've not been good at in the past is how does all of this stuff feed into memberships? Cause personally, like. Strategy wise, my number one focus, our Northstar as a business, is we need to drive our preventative maintenance program.
We need to drive our membership program. So all of these things, so that we own a home, own a customer, get off the Google rat race, get off the SEO rat race, get off all the rat races, and just have a relationship.
John Wilson: Yeah, I think you're going to struggle in that capacity more than I am simply because I have the other trades.
So like us being able to come in and offer HVAC plumbing and electric, that's a big value add. And that's four visits a year for us. I don't know what it would be for just plumbing, but that's four visits a year for us. So like that membership program to me. 70 percent of our revenue every day comes from members.
Aizik Zimmerman: That is wild. My number is probably 5%.
John Wilson: Yeah, 70%. Our membership program is insane. Now, granted, we also sell a lot of memberships. We sell 10 to 15 a day. Like we're killing the membership game, but so much of our membership. Of our day to day revenue is driven by members.
Aizik Zimmerman: So I love that you said that, which is a criticism of us, but I agree with it. I think it's our biggest limiter for memberships as a pure play plumbing company. Yeah. What we have tried to design now is we know that our plumbing program has to be so good and produce so much value that someone's potentially willing to have the membership we have plus another company's membership for their HVAC or electrical side. And so we've tried to build in an inordinate amount of value. And the program we are now launching, I think is a lot of the way there to try and do that. It's still for sure going to be a hurdle. But I don't know, maybe naively, I think we can do it. I don't think it's going to be as easy, but I think we can get thousands of members.
And I guess like my evidence of it 15, 000 people. They don't call us for plumbing problems that theoretically could have these three trade memberships and be going with those companies and they're not. So most of the people we encounter actually don't have another membership. So they have no membership and we have a great plumbing membership.
The sales opportunity is there for us.
John Wilson: Yeah. How are you thinking like as you're saying that in my mind, I'm like, how could I build more value in my membership? Like, are you thinking about like a free annual drain cleaning?
Aizik Zimmerman: I'm doing that. I am.
John Wilson: Okay. We aren't doing that. And we should like, that would be really good.
Aizik Zimmerman: I am willing, I want to break even on my membership program by pricing it at enough of a price and putting enough value into it where I can go three, four times a year, perform a lot of different services and , first of all, have dedicated maintenance techs that are at a lower expense and go to your house three or four times a year.
Do a plumbing tune up, do a free sewer camera inspection, do a free water heater flush 10 percent off water tests, water quality testing every year, free interior drain cleaning. Yeah. If we're already in your home for one of those preventative visits, we have a special menu of super discounted things.
Like we'll do your toilet flapper for basically nothing, little things like that. We Are going to be adding water sensors into our package. So have it be smart. So we can put it around the water heater in different areas of your home. So you're notified and we're notified when there's a leak.
And I eventually pair that with water shut off so we can shut off the water at your home. Uh, Waterize your home by disconnecting the hose bib. So we've built in, honestly, like what we think is a ton of value into 29. 97 a month.
John Wilson: Yeah.
Aizik Zimmerman: That we think, cause I just know, like, we have very little members, I don't know, 400, that we've legacy ad, but those members we have spend a crazy amount of money with us.
When they have a problem or even when they don't, and we offer them preventative solutions, they spend money. And so when I see that for me it's not about making money in the monthly fee, it's about owning that customer owning that home. And what we have to then start investing in even more is appreciation for them, whether it's raffles, little gifts, bringing them coffee. Like we want to have a elevated member experience and bet on having those relationships with these homeowners rather than trying to make money from them through their monthly membership or on that visit. I just want to be in and own as many old homes as I can.
John Wilson: Yeah. I think that's good.
Aizik Zimmerman: A big part of it is getting the technician to push it. So one of the biggest things we're going to be investing in is our sales incentives are on memberships. So it's going to be a daily sales leaderboard for memberships. Monthly prizes of TVs, quarterly prizes of, going to a bulls game or bears game and then yearly vacation packages for the top sellers.
So we'll take you to Vegas for three days. And just have our entire company oriented around selling these. And we also, you know, pay money for every membership that they sell us. I think our reviews so just, yeah, pushing the sales incentives around memberships combining that with what we think is a program that adds real value.
John Wilson: Yeah. I'm into that. We're still getting like one, just so much of our money is driven out of memberships, but I think we provide a valuable membership to people.
The four visits a year safety check with electric plumbing walkthrough. I think we're going to add drains like that slick cause that alone, I don't know why we haven't done that before, that's solid.
Aizik Zimmerman: And if you have, you know, a lower expense technician who does that for your members, you can do it and actually a very cost effective way offering 1 of those a year. And like, look, if it's a sewer, they have to have an outside clean out. You put some parameters around what you're willing to do. But it just makes sense.
And like, we'll see if I eat my words. I look at a lot of larger companies with tons of members and I look at their programs and I'm not impressed. I don't think they actually add that much value. And I pushed ourselves over and over again, and we're going to keep doing it like an inspection is not value for a consumer.
You have got to perform free services as part of your membership.
John Wilson: Yeah and I agree. And I think like, that's really shaped how we handle an electrical. So it's an electrical safety inspection for the home, but when you actually get out there, they spend like two, three hours, like inspecting out of that house.
And like we deep dive, they literally open every little box on the wall, they make sure that everything's connected properly. They pop open your panel. Like it is a real safety inspection. And I think that provides a ton of value uh, for customers. Cause that's what they paid us for. Like they were concerned about the electrical safety of their home.
Like that makes sense. And frankly, I am too, like I'm in old home and like, I don't want to catch on fire.
Yeah, I think you're right. I think just like make it thorough, make it good. Provide a lot of value. Now I'm just like, man, we need to be doing drain cleaning. We just added water safety inspection to our plumbing for the same reason.
Cause it's like, man, people are concerned about that.
Aizik Zimmerman: It costs like a dollar or something for a test strip. Why would you not? Just test for like people care about lead. People care about contaminants. Like, yeah, it costs you nothing as a company if you're already in the home. So I don't know.
I think we're going to keep trying. I want to push the envelope of what people are doing. And I feel like we're just getting started on that.
John Wilson: Yeah, I think so. I think the only plug I'll give for like extra trades is it is a lot easier to explain value in an extra trade because like I look at Chris Hoffman's membership and I'm like, dude, that is a good freaking membership and they're charging like an extra 5 or 10 bucks a month than me, I'm pretty sure they have drain cleaning in there.
Like, that's great. That's amazing. And they have appliance. That's valuable peace of mind.
Aizik Zimmerman: Executed multi trade, protection plan, membership plan has more value than a single trade one. So my single trade one has to go so above and beyond that you want to do it.
And to it like a slight detriment to us, like it's not as efficient for us. Like I have to go further.
John Wilson: Yeah. I think you do, but I think the drain cleaning alone. Like I value as a homeowner and a plumbing business owner, I value a drain cleaning significantly more than I value like a water heater flush and water inspection.
So like, that's huge. And I think that would really add a lot to it.
Aizik Zimmerman: You just have to back into like price this stuff into your membership so that you break even how often you think this is going to happen and what's your text time cost and just try to fill a maintenance tax time with X number of members that just, you break even.
John Wilson: Yeah. All right. I'm into it. What else are you doing on marketing? I don't know. How else are you thinking about this? You're owning these two by two squares. You're doing relationship driven with restaurants to drive promos.
Aizik Zimmerman: I don't know. We're so infant like we have infinite ideas, but not infinite resources yet so a lot of this stuff like we're executing at a Warm up level and it's going to start getting really good if we can just get a little bit more scale. Like, I think our fun is going to begin 2024 is our year. Like we doubled the first year. We got to double one more time. If we can pull that off, We'll have proven the model. We'll have more resources. I can build the marketing team I want. I'm just trying to be laser focused on like, what do I need to do to get to 20 million, get to 30 million, have the resources to jump into these unique strategies. Cause some of these courses, like I would love to have a team of door knockers, I don't even care if they're selling just from a brand building standpoint, like what if I go to neighborhood by neighborhood, send out a team of door knockers, paired with restaurants, paired with buying lists of homeowners and calling them like the reason why people typically do radio and billboards from my conversation with them, like large home service companies is because it gets all these eyeballs.
But it's also expensive. What if you take that idea and apply it in a gorilla way to like on the ground
John Wilson: Yeah I agree. Like, our next big hire in marketing is, it's a brand manager is what we're calling it. Tactically it's a lot of like, proactive, like. Postcards email, that type of thing, but
he has a background in door to door and we are pumped up about launching door to door with his help.
And I, think there's a way, the way I'm like thinking about all this Is like what happens when there's no search, right? Like what happens when the Google texts stops working for whatever reason, if plumbing slow, if it's seasonal, I don't know, but like that's going to happen. And how do you handle it?
So like how do you stagger your communications? Like do they get a postcard one week? Then you trail them around on meta on the next week. Then they get an email the next week and an SMS the next week. And then do they get a door knocker? On that specific home to increase close rate. Cause they've already been introduced to your brand four times.
Yes. Or like how do you follow that up with the ISR team and like, how do you warm up the clothes?
Aizik Zimmerman: Yeah, I'm obsessed with this frequency of touches. And again, like, yeah, we're not on it yet, but obsessed with that idea. I think it's the way to go. but I think it has to pair with your brand has to be where you want it to be your logo, your color scheme, your website, your trucks. When you draw people in your Google reviews, the pictures you have , like your face online, which is something that we suck at. Like our website is disgusting. Our pictures are disgusting.
All of this sucks is why we're doing a rebranding. You've got to nail that part. And if you nail that part, like who wants to have a bunch of door knockers knocking neighborhoods? Like that's so much harder than just like paying for PPC.
Or like Angie's list or something like that. And it's like, I think that this is where the rubber meets the road is like, how do you fully own and fully control your marketing in a way that no one else is thinking about doing? And if they are thinking about doing, they don't have the resources to do it.
John Wilson: I'm equally obsessed. Yeah
Aizik Zimmerman: And I think, I just daydream if I can just get a little bigger and have the muscle to pull off more of my stuff. Cause the limiting factor, like the stuff that I am obsessed with is actually not expensive.
It's actually more of like not expensive on like a marginal basis. It's just like the manpower.
John Wilson: Totally.
Aizik Zimmerman: So if you've got the business to support This like almost like little SWAT team of guerrilla marketers that can go neighborhood by neighborhood parachute in. But if you can even like digitally make yourself visible and known in the community, pair that with parachuting in a gorilla team of marketers, do restaurants, door knocking, direct mail, all that stuff.
I don't know. I feel like that's what will work.
John Wilson: I think so too and all paired with a digital presence, but I think everybody got to digital and that makes the opening in anything non-digital a lot easier. And frankly, digital's not even working for most companies anymore like all these companies should have an idea that Google is God.
think it's just like, Oh, the weather's bad or, Oh, the economy is bad or whatever. And it's like, what else have you tried aside from Google and Angie's list? And if that's all you're trying to like, please keep trying it.
Aizik Zimmerman: And what are you doing even on Google? Like, how do you drive reviews to your pages? How do you think about expanding your service area online? Like, what are you doing? That's not
John Wilson: what everyone else is doing.
Aizik Zimmerman: If you want to be successful on Google, you need to be able to drive reviews and you drive reviews by getting your technicians to ask for reviews, which means you have to incentivize them.
Yeah. And then you also drive reviews by having an internal function, whether it's outbounding, whether it's using service time to just send a follow up survey, whatever it is, like if you can drive reviews, you can win Google.
John Wilson: I agree our like current obsession and now I'm f or to see how we're doing. But like, we're aiming for 100 reviews a week. And that's like, so vastly outperforming.
Aizik Zimmerman: There are multi million dollar companies that have been around for 20 years, 3 million dollar companies that have like 200 reviews. If you can drive a hundred a week and just dominate, and then you combine it with better SEO and just dominate digital channels, like you're going to beat these other companies.
John Wilson: So we're up at 40 a week. And we started at like, we were at 15 when we began the process. And that's just the past month and a half of like, okay, how do we make this more seamless? How do we make this better? How do we get our review generation to be a lot higher?
Yeah, like tripled. That's sweet.
Aizik Zimmerman: The way I think about incentivizing like what we're going to roll out we pay for reviews that our technicians get. We reward them for that. It shows quality work but sales incentives around that too, which is like, how do you have a leaderboard of reviews generated and have prizes for that?
So I'll send someone to Vegas. Like if you get the most reviews in a year, I'll send you to Vegas for that too. Like that's so valuable to my business. 100 for Google reviews on a GBP is ridiculously valuable. Like people don't actually understand how much that's actually worth.
John Wilson: No, they don't. And I think how that affects LSA, how that affects SEO, how that affects map pack.
Yeah. They don't get it. They really just don't.
Aizik Zimmerman: You're not getting leads from Google probably because you're probably not driving reviews and you probably aren't in the right areas geographically.
That's why you're not getting leads.
John Wilson: But man,, I, feel like we covered marketing, like we covered it as far as we can get without our competitors listening and doing something about it.
How about you leave us with a little nugget, leave us with something here.
Aizik Zimmerman: I think just think about digital as location is everything. And it's no different than the physical world. And you've got to be digitally where your customers are in various ways and you've got to own quote, unquote, more shelf space, digitally.
And then if you think about it like that, there's like a lot of different things you can do. But I think, yeah, just pushing the envelope. Like you just said, you're wanting to generate a hundred reviews a week. If you're a company with only 200 reviews, like you're going to get gobbled up in the rankings and like, yes, generating reviews, the bigger you are, obviously the more reviews you generate you do have the benefit of that, but like, if you're smaller, you could try harder on each call to get those reviews too.
Yeah. Like just try harder. Your technicians should do an all out sales pitch. You should follow up nonstop to get those reviews. It makes a huge difference.
John Wilson: Huge difference. Yeah. No, you're absolutely right, man. This was awesome. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for diving into marketing.
I love the way you look at it. It's refreshing. It's interesting and it's fun versus everybody else just putting quarters into Google waiting for dimes.
Thanks for coming on. If people want to tag along and see what you're up to. Is there any way for them to get ahold of you?
Aizik Zimmerman: I'm on Twitter, Isaac spelled A I Z I K.
I'm on LinkedIn. You could DM me. I don't use social media that much, but yeah, feel free to reach out.
John Wilson: Sweet. All right, man. Thanks for coming on. This was a great time. I know that everyone's going to get a lot of value out of this..
Thanks for tuning in to Owned and Operated, the podcast for home service entrepreneurs. If you enjoyed today's episode, please hit the like button and subscribe to the podcast. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, feel free to reach out. You can find me on Twitter at at Wilson companies.
I'll see you next time.
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