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July heat got you down? Then you must not work in the HVAC business, because things are hotter than ever for Jack and John, as they talk about trying to keep up with the massive summertime HVAC rush, the stretch of record-breaking home service sales records, and growth all around. But that begs the question: When you’re making summer hay what are the best moves to make in regards to expansion, future plans, and increasing your place in the market? Join Owned and Operated this week as the show breaks down the operational and real estate strategies around growth and how you can prepare to get big, even when the temperatures make you feel like shrinking.
Episode Hosts: 🎤
John Wilson: @WilsonCompanies on Twitter
Jack Carr: @TheHVACJack on Twitter
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John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies
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Owned and Operated Episode 133 Transcript
John Wilson: Welcome back…
Jack Carr: … To owned and operated. I miss saying that so much. How's it going, man?
John Wilson: Man, it's good. It's good. Yeah, like I said before we started, I feel like we're farts passing in the breeze right now. We're just like, I see you once a week. I'm not getting enough jack time.
John Wilson: So this is good.
Jack Carr: This is summer though. This is HVAC in…
John Wilson: full swing. This is HVAC in the summer.
Jack Carr: Yeah. Is it miserable up there right now? Yeah.
John Wilson: Oh yeah, no, this is, it's disgusting. Disgusting. It's disgusting. We're selling so much of your ACs. I think we're, it's great. And obviously the heat is what really helps.
John Wilson: And then you build infrastructure, you sell more memberships and then you do it all over again.
Jack Carr: Yeah. It's been 95 and humid and terrible and I don't want to be outside, but. Guess what? I'm in love. I'm so happy. I'm, I'm a kid in a candy
John Wilson: shop in summer. This is a strong summer too.
John Wilson: Yeah. Cause I actually don't feel like we've had a strong summer in a couple years. And I think it depends on where you are in the country. Like some people I've read on some Facebook groups. Some people are having a pretty weak summer, but Yeah. Our center, our, like you and I are in the sort of same section of the US and strong summer here.
John Wilson: I just got back
Jack Carr: from Las Vegas last week too. Yeah. And 117, so like they're doing all right. Yeah, they're doing good. Yeah. You're out in Vegas, Phoenix, Reno, like 110 plus is, yeah. I couldn't imagine working out there in that.
John Wilson: Yeah I can't either. I, we had we had Matt Ballard on the show last week in that new legend series that we're doing that I think, I don't know actually when that starts airing, but that will be fun.
John Wilson: And he talks about his guys working in like 140, 150 degree attics. And I'm like, that's crazy.
Jack Carr: Yeah. If you've ever been, I've been in 140 attic with zero ventilation and spray foam. It is miserable. Like 120, 115 is still like super hot, but like 140 addict, like you can't touch the machine. Like you can't touch the equipment without it like burning you.
Jack Carr: It's the craziest thing.
John Wilson: Yeah. We, I interviewed someone a couple of weeks ago and they were previously working for a competitor and this was like seven years ago and they had someone die. I don't know what it was. Maybe a kink stroke. Maybe I have no idea. Yeah, sweet, man. How are you guys doing?
John Wilson: Good. Like good. Cross the board though. Like not only
Jack Carr: HVAC.
John Wilson: Pretty much. Yeah, pretty much. We, yeah, all the trades set a record June. So we had a record May. That was like our first time crossing 2 million, which we've been chasing down 2 million a month since like October and just like really flirting with it.
John Wilson: And we finally broke it. And then, and we like we tipped the line in May for 2 million. And in June we did 2. 35. It was ridiculous and July will probably do the same. It might be like two and a half
Jack Carr: That's so cool. I'm so excited for the day like that. We do a hundred thousand dollar day Like that's my you know, you build these goals into your head that oh, yeah in the future Like yeah, I can't wait till we hit 1 million in revenue or 5 million in revenue Yeah, like my first hundred thousand dollar day i'm gonna be so freaking pumped.
John Wilson: Oh, yeah, they're still cool A hundred grand is now a normal day for us. I hate you. Don't say that. It's
Jack Carr: no big deal. No, it is,
John Wilson: it is a big deal. Like it's still like a sixth digit. Yeah. So every day it's just dude, this is awesome. .
Jack Carr: Yeah.
John Wilson: But now that number for us is we broke the 200,000 a day we broke, popped our cherry on that, which is like such a ridiculous number for us.
John Wilson: Hey. But we did like our previous high was like 180 maybe 160. And just all the stars aligning for something like that to happen. And same with 215, but we ended up doing 215 in a day.
Jack Carr: Most people listening, like most contractors in the United States, a 200, 000 day. That's their month. That's their average April.
John Wilson: This'll make even, this'll, This'll be even more nuts in the week that we did that. We sold 750, 000 in, in six days. Like it was,
Jack Carr: that's cool. That's super cool. No,
John Wilson: it is. It, but like my it is still cool. It's not, it hasn't it is still cool. I think what's been fun. And I did a tweet on this couple maybe a month ago, two months ago, but it took us 65 years to hit a million dollars a month.
John Wilson: Like literally 65 years. It took us I think 18 months to go from 1 million to 2 million a month. Like a million is really hard to break because it's infrastructure and not, and the, yeah, I've said this before here, but the lift from going from 1 million to 2 million a month is so outrageous. And it makes sense.
John Wilson: Like you're doubling, you're going from 12 million to 24 million, but like the lift from two to 3 million is so outrageous. Probably hardly going to be a lift, but the lift
Jack Carr: going from one to two is insane. That makes sense. You have to get your processes in place by the time you're at 12 million, you've already.
Jack Carr: Bash through the screw it up stage at 10 million, right? You have to, you've added the people, you've added the infrastructure, you've added the training programs, you've added the sales training. And so it all makes sense that it J curves towards the end. And then you hit other milestones.
John Wilson: Cause you add like now another million a month is 10 hires, but we're not going to be able to get all that done in, In because that's it's really ends up being 20 total hires because you have to back that in with install two. But yeah, it's basically 10 to 20 hires and that feels pretty darn achievable.
John Wilson: Even this calendar year, like we think we're going to hit our next, like the 3 million a month mark by next May.
Jack Carr: And once again, it's the nuance to it. Yeah, the number doesn't sound crazy. It's not hard for you because you guys have been there and done that, but it requires the infrastructure of, Hey, We have HR teams to actually go through and hire people.
Jack Carr: It's not the GM going out there. It's, hey, we have the benefits to attract people and we know how to get the right people in the right places. Because, we're trying to do three hires. Three hires is such a pain. So when you say ten, I laugh because it's damn, ten? I can't even, I can't fathom.
John Wilson: Ten is, ten is still like a lot. I'm not even saying that lightly. Yeah, 10's a lot, like 10 would be a lot for us, like that, that will happen in the next year, 10 service sales hires but that's not going to be next month.
Jack Carr: So the crazy part that we've ran into too with this is, as we like get more people on board and we've hired three more people, the landlord called me the other day and chewed Jack, I would never have rented to you da the lease.
Jack Carr: Sorry, lease to you. Because we held an all team meeting. We held a company wide meeting. Yeah. And we definitely were assholes, like we took up every parking spot in the entire complex and like we have 18, 19 people now and we're hiring three more, so 20, 21, 22, like I can't believe how big of an issue trash becomes and then parking and like office space, like I couldn't imagine, we were, when we started this, I was out of a storage unit and now that same J curve is a year and a half later, We are running out of parking, but what was the moment for you where like you, you fell into your first building, right?
Jack Carr: When you bought the business, it was already there. Yep. Already there. What was the big kind of reasoning in the lift to get to where you are now?
John Wilson: I was, this was on the brain earlier today. And I'm going to give like a sob story. Diatribe, go. Today, I did my final walkthrough of the building that Wilson spent its first 65 years in, which is insane, right?
John Wilson: So my grandfather bought this building back in the 50s, and we've been there ever since, and we like, we kept, it was a huge building, 26, 000 square foot, we kept remodeling and expanding and people had double offices and parking was a problem. For the last four years. Like we ran out of room years ago.
John Wilson: So having multiple locations was partially because we bought the businesses, but also like we couldn't, we could never have combined if we wanted to, because we didn't have the physical space set up for it. So we obviously moved. I've talked about that a lot on the show. But we've, we moved and we shut down all those external locations and we combined them all into one, which was a ridiculous lift.
John Wilson: And so what we were looking for in the building was we wanted somewhere that we felt like we could spend the next 10 years, which was probably a mistake. Oh, cause you've already grown it already. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. We still have room. We do, but I can, it's coming faster than I would have thought.
John Wilson: So we're not, we're definitely not busting at the seams like we were at the last building, but I think within a year or two we will, like we filled a lot of offices faster than I thought we would. The call center filled in quicker than I thought. All like we use all the rooms regularly and parking, which we thought we were going to solve by moving here.
John Wilson: is still a ridiculous issue. We thought we had enough, and we just plainly don't. So that's that's super frustrating. We should have moved somewhere with two or three hundred parking spaces. A shutdown Toys R Us or something like that is probably what we should have done.
John Wilson: And instead we took an office building.
Jack Carr: That's so crazy that you're already, you can see it on the horizon, which is the crazy part. Like it doesn't hurt just yet, but you can see it's going to hurt. Cause you're right. There's not, you guys, last time I walked through, you guys didn't have, you had one or two open offices.
Jack Carr: The bullpen was pretty full. And then we're not using
John Wilson: space efficiently. Like we're not like, Where I'm recording. Is an office that like in the next year, we'll have to become someone's office. So I'll have to move this room. Yeah. Or like we have an office that we use for uniforms and we have an office that we have five empty offices, as we're thinking about this, we're thinking a lot about, okay, what does this look like?
John Wilson: We're thinking about more locations again in different markets now, but so like the building, I think the building is going to continue to work for us. It's just like how it works. Mike. My shift, but we still have room to add another probably 15 heads in call center. So that's good which is only double our current call center.
John Wilson: So that's not like a crazy number 15, which like, we'll probably hit that in the next two, three years. And when we first moved in, we were like, oh man, actually, This feels really big. We filled it like we, yeah, we've we have room, but we don't have a lot of room. The, where we could do the warehouse was really important because we knew we were going to do VMI and we had to be able to block off and gate and camera, and then put them behind.
John Wilson: Like we have key cards access for everywhere. And we had to put, we had to be able to lock all that down because it's someone else's inventory. So that was really important for us. And then we had to have enough garage doors for staging. Which I could've done, we only did four, I I wish we had ten.
Jack Carr: Yeah, it's bustling in there in the mornings, everybody's just flying, trying to get that stuff out there. It's crazy. Yeah. It all stacked back.
John Wilson: Yeah, it's we did some stuff right, we did some stuff wrong. We would, I don't know that we would be able to run double all inside one building. Mainly just from from a like, where do people park?
John Wilson: We're already, it's already a problem.
Jack Carr: When you get to the next step because there's potentially as you reach a certain point, you expand offices back out. You just have to go multi location. I can't imagine you continue one location. To get past certain milestones like Tommy Mello's type of stuff.
Jack Carr: You just can't do one single market to a hundred million Or you can but you know what? It just gets very difficult versus opening up a second market and a third market doing six to nine that million each Yeah my question here is, do you view the office space changing as one of them becomes your main hub, and then you utilize, I would think that your call center all comes out of one location.
Jack Carr: Yeah. You could actually offset that call center to somewhere else, right? You get a Full office building with no warehouse and no do you think about those kind of things? Or is it you really want to consolidate as much as possible?
John Wilson: Yeah, like this will be an interesting podcast to listen back to in six months, but we're in the early stages of thinking next market again.
John Wilson: All that said, like we can go bigger. Inside Northeast Ohio. We don't think we're anywhere near our peak inside this market. I'd agree. But you can go pretty big. Hoffman ran, I think 70 or 80 out of their primary location. Peterman runs 50 or so out of their primary location. Eco down in Columbus runs 50 or so out of their primary location.
John Wilson: So you can go big with one location. You can go pretty big. And I think we could get to 70, 80, but I also think we're within the next two years dropping new locations again. And the way it looks, it's going to look like Tommy Mello, Gettle, Chad Peterman. Yeah. We centralized call center. We centralize. We centralized most of it, really.
John Wilson: And we are dropping in branch managers and we're building from there.
Jack Carr: This episode is sponsored by Home Service Engine. So this is a company that I would highly recommend if you are thinking about getting onto service Titan, or if you're like me and you have to rebuild your service Titan every few months because you set it up incorrectly.
Jack Carr: So this is my go to team for any service titan needs and I really wish I had them from the start Give them a call today and start utilizing service titan to its fullest potential. What's your view on? Because I know what your setup looks like and you have right you have a very dynamic area where if the call center is not working, it red lights or excuse me, if you don't have leads, you get going to code red and then it flashes and then all the call center turns and it's very on site specific.
Jack Carr: Do you view that as changing in the future or is that just through automation? You're going to manage that because
John Wilson: that becomes a whole new thing. We'll keep call center centralized just like everyone else has done. I think that just makes the most sense. So the other people that we talked to, they put in a dispatcher and a branch manager.
John Wilson: And those are the two people inside that new market, and then they build from there. And then, yeah, warehouse. Again, we're really early. We are very early stages. I have enough of it mapped out that I'm like, yeah, I think we could do this. We ran multi location for years. So I feel like we have really good understanding of what it looks like.
John Wilson: And what we're really trying to be conscious of is not rushing into it again. When we still have like issues, like scaling issues here at home base that we just haven't fully solved yet. Because the way that multi location works, Is like, how good is your training department? Because when I go hire 10 people in wherever, they're going to get flown in and they're going to get taught the Wilson way.
John Wilson: And they're going to go through a bootcamp and that has to be robust and good so that when they go back to whatever market they came from, they're able to perform at the standard that we want. And, give great customer service, drive the numbers that we're looking for, and that's all training.
John Wilson: And I think that we're farther than we were, but I don't think we're far enough. to put our best foot forward on that.
Jack Carr: That's a really interesting idea though. I think that moving back out, it was, it's neat that you consolidating and then branching out again. We used it to scale
John Wilson: so that when we go do the next thing, we have the infrastructure to do it.
John Wilson: So like I have 25 people in the call center. We have a great call center team. We have a great dispatch team. We have a full accounting team. We have a full HR and recruitment team. We have a like fully built marketing team, so we can just go do it, but the pieces that are still left to feel really great about our current position, training development.
John Wilson: We want to make sure HR is on point and we want to make sure accounting is clean. And you're strong, ready to separate those financials out. And there's a we have to be able to build capability for future leaders. And those are the big gaps. Like I could go launch a new branch tomorrow and I feel like it would be a terrible experience.
John Wilson: Like I think we would, it would just suck my time and energy and we're just not there yet. But I also, I think it's within the next nine months. Circling
Jack Carr: back to locations and when you picked and why you picked. Mhm. We're going through that too. Like I was saying, parking's becoming a hassle.
Jack Carr: Our warehouse is full. I'm looking my, my wonderful thing looks like your office, but it's actually in the storage room for everyone who can see the video. And I get to stare at our walls and walls of HVAC supplies because we don't have VMI. So it's wraps and insulation and six inch, whatever.
Jack Carr: So I guess we've come to the conclusion, right? That it's 1 million per thousand square feet. And then you have to look ahead to the future, but from your perspective, what is like the maximum you would spend when you're that sub 5 million for our listeners and myself that you would look at spending because you, because we couldn't.
Jack Carr: I'm sure you couldn't either, but you can't go out and I can't, we think we're going to be 4 million this year if we say we can't go out and buy 8, 000 square feet just because the price is going to be so expensive per square foot. So what, where's your constraints on like capital? Man, see I, I feel like that's exactly what you should do.
Jack Carr: Oh, that hurts so bad though. Yeah, it's just Cause our biggest issue isn't don't get me wrong, this is annoying, right? It's not hurting growth at this very second, versus where I think in your situation it would.
John Wilson: I think that moving is such a drag. Operationally, like it is such a drag and I want to move the least amount of times possible.
John Wilson: And like any savings on rent, you like multiply that by 30 and that's how much you lose
Jack Carr: moving. The difference though this is a legitimate thing we're worried about right now. So we can move down the street. We could get this building that's 6, 000 square feet. It wouldn't be the full doubling, but it would give us a couple years of wiggle room, right?
Jack Carr: I feel like that. Like a year. What's your
John Wilson: current rent? And then what's the rent you're trying to get?
Jack Carr: That's what I was going to go into. Yeah. So the current rent on what we're paying right now for 3, 000 square feet is 2, 500 a month.
John Wilson: Yeah. Like we're not talking about
Jack Carr: a lot of money easy not a lot of money It doesn't I write that check and I feel zero pain jack if I go and buy 7 000 square feet or 8 000 square feet.
Jack Carr: We're talking like 18k? Why would it multiply by 6 or 7? So 2 per square foot, so 16k, excuse me.
John Wilson: You're paying 2, 500 a month for 3k, but if you went to 6k it would cost 15, 000.
Jack Carr: I got a killer deal here. The market is 2 per square foot. And here it's like sub 1. Sure you could find that again.
Jack Carr: I'm looking. I'm always looking. That's like the key if I can find that we would move if I can get 6, 000 square feet for 6, 000 a month like that jump isn't that much of a lift? I
John Wilson: still think you're aiming too small like my quick take here is if I were in your shoes I would be very hesitant to sign a lease under 10, 000 square feet.
John Wilson: I know.
Jack Carr: We see it. I feel it right now, the annoyance. And I know that, hey, in one year we'll fill out, two years we'll fill out. But it's also a giant recruitment issue. So we have a problem here with recruitment that when people show up they leave sometimes, I think. They show up and they see our small Yeah, we've had that.
Jack Carr: Yeah, we've had that. Small I don't wanna say small office, but we
John Wilson: literally talk about this at the workshop. What's the phrase for my
Jack Carr: problem? Yeah, it's a marketing, not
John Wilson: a cost problem.
Jack Carr: Yeah, unless it's cost prohibitive. I'd be good if if I could get 1 per square foot. I've paid 10, 000 for 10, 000.
Jack Carr: I could do that. Like we could swing that.
John Wilson: Yeah. Our rent, our building occupancy cost is 200, 000 a year, but that's a building like, yeah, we're not class A, but it's a good building works fine for us. But I think I would imagine that you would be able to find something and just take your time looking for it.
John Wilson: Because I would much rather take my time and find like a property that's located well that we're going to be near our customers that like looks good on paper and in person. So it's good recruitment tool. I'd rather spend like we spent a couple years looking and it was COVID market. So that's a little bit different, but like contractor buildings are really hard to find in.
John Wilson: At least where I am like above 15, 000 square feet, which is what we were looking for. But now, ours is yeah, 28, I think I could not imagine 10, 000 less square feet. Like we would have moved again already in the first year.
Jack Carr: And as you continue to J, it becomes an, and so that's the thing is we've seen, I've seen myself move twice already.
Jack Carr: And so I'm a hundred percent on board. It's just the pain in the initial. Worse and worse, the
John Wilson: bigger you get to.
Jack Carr: Yeah.
John Wilson: Moving the inventory, moving bills, moving
Jack Carr: the team. Did you find that given you were already above the size, but I could imagine too that from like a VMI standpoint, like vendors are much more willing to work with you when you had the space to put them.
Jack Carr: Yeah. There's a cost cap to it, right? They want you to make a certain amount before they bring in VMI to make it worth their time. Yeah, for sure. I definitely would think that. Hey, the easier you make this on us, the more willing we're going to work with you.
John Wilson: A professional looking building helps every single part of what you're doing.
John Wilson: It helps your marketing, it helps your recruiting, it helps your vendor efforts. Like you just, you do it's like how you dress is how you're treated, the building that you're in is how you're treated, and if you put forward a, like a professional presentation, then you're gonna be treated like a professional.
John Wilson: Our vendors with VMI, they're awesome partners, and they're regularly bringing in other parties to site visit what they're doing in our VMI, because we put forth a good foot forward. They see what we're doing. I also think, It becomes more important the bigger you get the vendor relationships you have start, start getting really complicated.
John Wilson: We're like, we'll have open balances with vendors of hundreds of thousands of dollars because that's the, that's the amount that they've given us for credit. And they want to see a well run business, and part of a well run business is the facility. Are you a well run business? So I think the, I think it ripples out both ways.
John Wilson: Now, granted, that's for our size of a company, but I think that having never been in a nice building before this one and then moving in here, it has, it like, it has been a huge difference across almost every part of what we do.
Jack Carr: That's cool. It feels good knowing that because as we move forward, like it, it definitely helps make the justification easier.
Jack Carr: But it makes sense. Look good, feel good, do good. I've always, I live by that. You can also
John Wilson: sublet if you get it too big, but Rich is a great example. He got 40, 000 square feet. He sublet a bunch of it, but now he's got an amazing facility and he's going to be able to grow into that facility.
Jack Carr: Not to mention the marketing of just having that freaking fairway right there, the freeway going and you see the sign.
Jack Carr: Oh, that, that sign was beautiful.
John Wilson: Yeah, I think the bigger you get. Optimizing around location becomes a good thing. So like when we're starting to think about auxiliary markets, like it'll probably be minimum 10, 000 square feet, even when I start with two people. And maybe even bigger, I don't even know because we want to make sure VMI has room.
John Wilson: We want to make sure we've got good room for training, good conference rooms. Adequate office space, good parking, clean bathrooms, good kitchen. We want people to feel comfortable with where they work and we want to put forth a good presentation, but yeah, that's my philosophy on real estate. I really need to do like another, like updated tour of Hey, here's what it looks like a couple months later.
John Wilson: Because I think the last one was like, we were still under construction.
Jack Carr: We need to do, I need to do one too so that people can see what I'm talking about. I would love to see it. I haven't seen it. Once we get the garbage problem situated. I gotta get the, we are, like I said, we're having a garbage issue currently, just because we don't have any place to put a 40 yard dumpster.
Jack Carr: Oh. So we have to be, yeah, so we just brought in, to do trash for us. And so we're like two weeks behind. So once we get rid of those two weeks of the trash and everything looks nice again, then I'm going to do it. But so that I can pretend to you all that it looks beautiful.
John Wilson: So we did, like I said earlier, we did this walkthrough of this building that we spent 65 years on and obviously a lot of memories.
John Wilson: Like I grew, literally grew up in that building basically. And one of the things that was fascinating was like, It's a, it is a, because it's totally empty, like broom swept empty. And you start walking through this empty 26, 000 square feet. And it's really badly laid out. That's why we had to move like two stories, one garage door.
John Wilson: Like it, it's not really like good. And you start walking through all of the decisions that we rationalized. To stay in that building that over, over like the past, five, six years. Yeah. Like we built on entire sections. We remodeled huge sections of the building. We did like an insane amount of work to go from being able to run.
John Wilson: That's where my dad, that's where my grandfather had three plumbers, a CSR and himself, like five people. And that was 50 years ago. So like I was running 70 people out of that building. And we had to we just walked through all the justifications and like I was there with my wife and my wife's like when we were engaged, she was working for the business, not how we met, but she was working for the business and we had this little section that doesn't exist anymore and that's where her office used to be and we have this picture from 10 years ago of where her office used to be.
John Wilson: And. It doesn't exist anymore and like we walk through this and I'm just like, I can't believe that a year ago we were using this building because it's so clearly too small and the wrong fit and we had to make so many justifications and like I just should have moved a decade ago.
Jack Carr: Yeah, it's funny how we all do that.
Jack Carr: And I think I'm just thinking back on three or four times that I've done stupid stuff like that.
John Wilson: Yeah.
Jack Carr: And you finally pull the trigger, you do it, and it's just, it's better. It's so much better.
John Wilson: The business is literally up 65%. It's like a tangible difference. And growth is real. And the quality of hire, I think that's probably been one of the biggest movers in our business over the past year, is quality of hire.
John Wilson: And I'm convinced a large reason that we're having higher quality hires is because of the facility. They're coming to interview. They see where we are. We, and we were in an area where people didn't want to go. And now we're in an area where the type of staff that we're trying to hire live.
John Wilson: Our whole team has leveled up because of the property that we're in.
Jack Carr: It's a good reminder. Recruiting, location is a recruiting effort. For Yeah. And a marketing effort. Yep. It is not a capital issue. Yeah. Yeah. Unless, within capital restraint, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Don't
John Wilson: go freaking nuts.
John Wilson: That's awesome,
Jack Carr: man. I did see downtown in Akron. They, what, they have a 200, 000 square foot high rise you could go into next? Yeah. That would be,
John Wilson: that would be good. I still need to see if it's available.
Jack Carr: Like 40 stories. I don't
John Wilson: know
Jack Carr: how you're going to put any garage doors in there, but you should be good to go.
Jack Carr: Should be good. If you like what you heard today, head on over to owned and operated. com. Check out the new website. Leave us a five-star review wherever you're listening to this. Let John and my moms know that we were making it. We're doing all right. We're doing all right. And then. John, we have an event coming up.
John Wilson: And we've got our next workshop, the breaking 5 million workshop. Check it out. It's early September and that's owned and operated. com. We had a great time last time. It's going to be fun again. And it's at our facility here in Stowe, Ohio. So…
Jack Carr: speaking of location, come out, see John's location, see how a proper location is set up, and awesome guys.
Jack Carr: Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening.
John Wilson: Thanks for tuning in to owned and operated. The podcast for home service entrepreneurs. If you enjoyed today's episode, please hit the like button and subscribe to the podcast. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, feel free to reach out.
John Wilson: You can find me on Twitter at Wilson Companies. I'll see you next time.
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